MyDD :: You People Are Funny

You People Are Funny

by ObamaEdwards2008, Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:14:31 AM EST

One minuet, I'm reading all these complaints that Obama isn't attacking Hillary Clinton enough and that he shouldn't be trying to play it safe with her. So many complaints about how he's not going after her like he should. His whole "clean campaign theory should be dumped and he should fight for the nomination. Maybe he's not because he's running for VP bla bla bla...... Then I read the "Memo Scandal" and now everyone is just so ticked off that Obama is going after Hillary and beating her at her own game and how this is just so wrong. Shame on Obama. He's not following his own rules of clean campaigning. I thought he was different. So much for opposing politics as usual bla bla bla...... All this coming from the SAME people. I think it's funny. I really do.

Tags: Obama, Clinton, Political Attacks (all tags)

Permalink :: 40 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Go after issues. Don't use slurs that get you in hot water with an important demographic. That makes no sense to you?

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:17:29 AM EST

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

I'm sorry. Outsourcing American jobs, unethical behavior and hypocrisy are not issues to you?

"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama

by ObamaEdwards2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:20:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Packaged in with what many see as a cheesy personal attack and a racial slur (an absolutely unnecessary and ridiculous "pun" at the very least) any discussion contained in the package disappears. Blame Obama (or Gibbs) for this, not "posters" on this site.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:29:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

correction: racial slur=ethnic slur

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I wish, for you, (none / 0)

this had legs, but it does not. And let's not even realy talk about those memos, because I don't see anyone doing that. As far as the content, of what is in those memos? Have the Clinton Camp denounced any of that? No, they haven't and if I was her, let it just float away. Because if you want to get to the crux of it, that shit is a red herring. Want to get voters angry? Just say, "loosing jobs", "outsourcing", "lowering pay", see folks get that. So, I would just let this shit, float away.

"I want my voice to be read"

by icebergslim on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wish, for you, (none / 0)

In the memos? One memo was a ridiculous, downright stupid attempt at smearing Bill Clinton by claiming that he gave a speech on 9/11. It has been proven that the speech in question was given on 9/10. Did the Obama camp issue an apology for sending out a smear memo that was based on slimy lies? No. WHAT exactly do you want to discuss in that memo other than "Obama's camp has lost it. They are sending out slimy memos and are begging for them not to be attributed to the campaign?" WHAT exactly would you like to discuss here? Are YOU saying that they are actually CORRECT with their slimy smear, that indeed horrid Bill Clinton was giving a speech on 9/11?

Your excuses of these slimeball are wearing thin. That is what you get when you have slimeball Robert Gibbs running your show.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:49:06 PM EST
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Re: I wish, for you, (none / 0)

I THOUGHT I would not get an answer on my post. Can ANY Obama fan PLEASE justify the smear memo claiming that Bill Clinton gave a speech on 9/11? And can ANY Obama fan PLEASE explain why Obama did not issue a retraction when it was proven that the attack from the Obama campaign was a lie? ANYONE? Bueller?

I guess they can't defend the indefensible, so they just stay quiet.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 06:34:04 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

"any discussion contained in the package disappears."

That is what you hope. Keep people in the dark about Hillary's pro-corporate agenda, and accuse Edwards of hypocrisy and Obama of racism instead. Classy.

"Punjab" was a word used by Hillary. First.

The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.

by Populism2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:41:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

That is EXACTLY how Allen's supporters argued after he had his "Macacca" moment. Nice form.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:52:25 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

BTW, it is not about the "word" but how it is being used. You should know that.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:53:35 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

How sad is it that you blame a candidate for a company's decision to cut costs. I'm not sure if you know about a funny little study called economics, but guess what: there's only so much a government can do to pressure a company to keep its call centers here. Otherwise, they will do what they feel is necessary to maximize profit. Unless you think we should be like Cuba and make it against the law to move.

The best way to reduce outsourcing is to invest in new jobs that can't be outsourced. Coincidentally, that's part of Mrs. C's platform. Imagine that, another smart policy stance from the former first lady.

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 01:53:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

I thought one of the traditinoal roles of progressive government was to regulate, that is limit, the actions of corporations where these are arguably not it the public interest. It sounds from your statement ...otherwise they will do what they feel is necessary to maximize profit and so forth that you have accepted a recent, but powerful, right wing frame regarding the place of business in society.

Is it necessary to cite incidents in a century long history of this, from the Pullman riots and the battle for an eight-hour day, the Teapot Dome scandal right down to the present debate over net neutrality?

Sheesh. Capitalism is a mechanism of our society, to be managed for public good, not a force of nature or a religon.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 07:08:12 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

It sounds from your statement ...otherwise they will do what they feel is necessary to maximize profit and so forth that you have accepted a recent, but powerful, right wing frame regarding the place of business in society.

No, actually I have accepted economics which states that a business' goal is to maximize profit just as it is a consumer's goal to maximize personal satisfaction. A democratic government cannot force a company to employ * resources. That's the cost to government of freedom and I value that principle whole-heartedly. We can make incentives, but we can't force. Some of those incentives may be tax breaks for companies considering relocating abroad but agree to stay in the US. Some of those incentives may be guaranteed business that will help shore up the losses that a company takes because the reality is, say in California where I live, that you have to pay at least $7.50/hr for work that they could relocate and have done for a tiny fraction of the cost. It's the same reason people hire illegal immigrants to mow their lawns and not the landscaping company that's fully compliant with government regulations but charges an arm and a leg because they also have to make a profit.

The public good of capitalism is that anyone can do whatever he or she wants with his money, time, or personal resources and can choose to produce and sell whatever he wants (including his or her time and labor) at a price that competes with other sellers and gives the consumer the best deal (provided none of it breaks the law). Every trade is by definition balanced, for it it weren't there wouldn't be a trade. That's what's happening now. And what we need to do to stop outsourcing is create new jobs where America will once again be the leader and, for a time, the sole producer of that factor.

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 07:59:03 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

...provided none of it breaks the law... Exactly. Laws imposed on business by representative government elected by the people, embodied in those such as Hillary and Obama whom we have chosen to serve.

They are supposed to be setting limits on business in our interests, not the other way around. This is what I find disturbing. I can understand the Republicans doing it, that is their economic philosophy... but progressive Democrats?

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 08:20:23 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

My assessment stands. You can't force businesses to employ a given resource in a democratic government. Any law that says "you must employ only Americans when you produce *" will be overturned in court. It's a restriction of personal freedom. Liberty is an American value, regardless of party affiliation.

They are supposed to be setting limits on business in our interests, not the other way around.

I don't think you understand how our economy works. The economy is what sustains us and is the medium through which we get the resources we need in order to live our lives as citizens of the richest country in the world. Our government oversees the activities within its reach but it does not decide them. We as individuals get to decide what we want to do and so long as it doesn't harm others, then it's fine. What's not fine is presuming that Joe Smith who works at an AT&T call center in Sunnyvale, CA has a legally-mandated right to be employed there until he wants to quit. If AT&T wants to move call centers to India, that's up to the management and the shareholders.

But enough about economic realities in a democratic nation. Hillary Clinton has proposed giving tax incentives to companies who stay in the United States and employ Americans. And Hillary definitely supports some trade restrictions with which you would likely agree. They could be an important transition policy while we invest in new industries.

Make no mistake about it, outsourcing can never be eliminated: only slowed. Any factor of production is subject to being subsituted by a lower cost alternative. Businesses are driven by profit and that often means reducing costs. That's not a philosophy: it's an immutable fact. The way to make America competitive again is to create new jobs that can't be outsourced and train people who've been laid off to help in our shift to becoming a leader once again.

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 08:46:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

And mine. And please don't put words in my mouth or guess at what positions I am suggesting for specific issues. I am probably way to the left of you on most of this.

But since the topic is outsourcing, and free trade and jobs and so forth, please tell me if you believe that the trend towards global investment, and ownership, actually has improved or preserved the quality of life of US citizens as managed by recent administrations and captains of industry? Is NAFTA a success, a failure or just the way the cookie crumbles?

The laws of supply and demand have created a very successful, not to mention profitable, market for weapons makers and private security contractors in recent years. I would prefer to see that particular market sector in decline, how 'bout you?

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 09:20:08 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Hey Shaun, where have you been hiding? Enjoyed our previous discussions. Too many hard-core kids doing Obama's bidding on here these days. Need the old guard (you know, the ones who were with him for a bit longer than just 45 days) for some intelligent discussion around here. :-)

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 10:14:13 PM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Howdy, George. Looks like a two-horse race is shaping up, which is not what I was hoping for in this primary season but there it is. Pretty satisfied with Obama's position in the polls at this time, still a long way to go. We'll know better whether Hillary will be able to maintain her lead by September.

I guess the polemics are going to get worse before they get better. Matt and Chris have apparently had enough, eh?

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 10:43:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

The laws of supply and demand have created a very successful, not to mention profitable, market for weapons makers and private security contractors in recent years. I would prefer to see that particular market sector in decline, how 'bout you?

Let's not blame supply and demand, the concept for what we know is making the "defense" industry pop its champagne corks. It's George Bush's wars and United States-provoked arms race that has made it very profitable to be in that kind of business. And sure, I'll agree with you that I'd like to see a decline in weapons trade.

As for NAFTA, it's a very difficult question you've asked me to make a summary judgement of: one that I could spend a year researching in order to form a good answer. I don't feel qualified to say what the overall impact of NAFTA is. I used to study Sociology and I recall very much why people thought it was going to be the end of the Mexican farmer and the American middle class textiles worker. But I also see that trade (b/w the US and Mexico) has quadrupled since 93, translating into billions in savings due to cheaper goods for American consumers and a (albeit slow due to corruption) decline in poverty for Mexico. There are a number of problems that arise because of free trade, but it fundamentally benefits we as consumers and as investors precisely because of the brutal competition that arises and drives down prices. The fact remains that globalization is real and we very much depend on Mexico, China, India, etc to produce the goods that we could produce but never as cheaply and thereby never as efficiently as they can.

So yeah, I don't have an answer for you on NAFTA. The numbers are difficult to deny as are the social consequences. Maybe I'll research it all one day.

While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama

by bowiegeek on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 10:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Well, would you be surprised that I completely agree with you. I can see the pros and cons of the global economy and I accept your premises. This is basically the question I was asking from the start, forgive me for not being clear.

The intention of maintaining and improving the quality of life of the citizen during this transition seems to me a principle that the US constitution would uphold. I just haven't heard the dialogue on the subject I would have expected.

My gravest concern at the moment is that the prosperity of the society we are now enjoying is not distributed as widely as it might be. I think the difference between the cost of a typical home and the wage of a typical worker has risen dramatically while the prosperity has been enjoyed by those in a position to take advantage of a global investment boom that takes no interest in the fate of any workforce, anywhere.

I welcome a booming trade among nations and acknowledge that a fair degree of this transition is inevitably beyond the power of nations to regulate, but merely raise the question who is looking after the constitutional rights of the citizens while it occurs?

Thanks for your responses.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

The Obama campaign has suffered a mini-"macacca" moment. Had they not included that one word, "Punjab", which is both a region in India and an ethnic slur, the release would have been fine.

I would like to see them fight it out, but on the issues (outsourcing is an issue), not slurs.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:27:52 AM EST

Re: You People Are Funny (3.00 / 1)

why do you say Punjab is an ethnic slur?

by parahammer on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:29:02 AM EST
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Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Exactly. If the Clinton's were outsourcing our jobs to Canada , dealing with Canadian businesses and they called her D-Canada, would that be an ethnic slur? No. They are just looking for something to nit pick at. They miss "you know who".

"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama

by ObamaEdwards2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:32:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

I have heard people refer to Indian people as "punjab" before. It's in the "urban dictionary." http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph p?term=punjab

It was just not in good taste.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:35:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

why do you say it is an ethnic slur?

by parahammer on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:37:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Please stop it (none / 0)

Your guy John does not benefit from this, believe me.

The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.

by Populism2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:43:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please stop it (none / 0)

What does Edwards have to do with this?

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

and start discussing things that matter instead? Haircuts, hedge funds, madrassas, hookers - it's getting lame.

The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.

by Populism2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:38:30 AM EST

Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

Obama's "Macaca" moment is more of an issue than a haircut.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 11:52:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

Didn't hurt Hillary enough when she said it. I figure this will float over fast like the "Myspacegate Scandal"

by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:10:17 PM EST
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Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

I think it's more like a "haircut scandal." It will be around a while.

The fact that there are 6 diaries in the past day by Obama supporters addressing the issue tells me it's something they (and probably the campaign as well) are worried about.

Hillary's use was in a different context. Obama was attacking Clinton on the issue of outsourcing (which isn't he a free-trader?). The document was fine without the "Punjab" reference.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

I don't think so VP, I think it is history. JE haircut was played repeatedly in the MSM, even had Huckabee joking on it in one of the debates. Still the majority of the populus rely on TV, this is not hitting the airwaves. It would be on the waves if there was a video of it, like the maccaa incident, but noone it talking about this.

"I want my voice to be read"

by icebergslim on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

I don't think so VP, I think it is history. JE haircut was played repeatedly in the MSM, even had Huckabee joking on it in one of the debates. Still the majority of the populus rely on TV, this is not hitting the airwaves. It would be on the waves if there was a video of it, like the maccaa incident, but noone it talking about this.

"I want my voice to be read"

by icebergslim on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:31:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

I would disagree that "the document was fine without the "Punjab" reference."

The memo attacks their investments in India, despite the fact their investments were in a Senate blind trust. It's rather disingenuous to attack an investor who does not control his investments.

Also, Obama's memo uses information from a defunct organization that has a record supporting nativism and smearing Democratic candidates. The memo claims "Clinton wins "Weasel Award" for Comments on India," from the IT Professionals Association of America. ITPAA granted that "award" to another well-known Democrat: John Kerry. Additionally, this group awarded it's only "Eagle Award" to Tom Tancredo. ITPAA went "on hiatus" starting June 2006. Obama's use of right-wing sources should trouble all Democrats.

by domma on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 02:00:26 PM EST
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Re: Can we just leave this non-issue behind (none / 0)

So, what you are saying here is that EVEN THE MEMO without the D-Punjay reference was garbage? Because the investments were in a Senate BLIND TRUST, which means the investors have no idea what is in that trust to begin with? And Obama fans actually defend that memo? Why?

And you are right about the "right-wing" sourcing. This is just another such example. They don't mind quoting right-wing sources like this organization (nice find, btw.) and Insight Magazine or the NY Daily News to make their cheesy attacks.

It is clearly desperation. But, why? I thought a new poll (Harris) showed some extraordinarily good news for Obama, a FOUR POINT GAP instead of a 15-point one? So, what are these desperate tactics all about? And, did they really think their attempts at keeping these slimy memos a secret and un-attributed would fly?

We all KNOW what a slimeball Robert Gibbs is (he created the "DEAN-MORPHS-INTO-OSAMA-BIN-LADIN" attack,) but his slimy efforts here are so transparent and laughable, aside from being offensive to anyone with a few brain cells, that he is hurting Obama more than doing him any good.

by georgep on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 06:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Many of us would note that in spite of a few differences, you're both on the same Lieberman-lite centrist path.
As a result Gore is now #3.

So beware of who you hang with:
Because your buddy Joe is now about as popular as Dick Cheney.

Now that's funny!

Dedicated to a Clean and Lean Dean Powered Machine!

by hazmaq on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 12:56:43 PM EST

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

By the way, would you care to explain what "you people" means? Because I believe it's kind of a well, racial slur.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 05:27:48 PM EST

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Bite me! Is that racist too?

Considering that I don't know what any of you people look like, I don't see how it can be racial. Please don't try that reverse racism crap on me because it makes you look stupid. I'm Black and even I'm getting sick of the fake race card crap.

"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama

by ObamaEdwards2008 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 06:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

If you don't have any idea what I look like, why do you assume I'm not black? I realize you expect all black people to vote for Barack Obama, but don't assume that.

The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK

by Vox Populi on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 07:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You People Are Funny (none / 0)

Yeah, as an Obama supporter, I disagree with this post. Obama should be going after Hillary on the WAR, not on some nonesense about whether Bill gave a speech on Sept. 11th. Those memos the other day were a disgrace to everything his campaign stands for. He better get his act together.

better luck next universe

by thenew on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 06:10:25 PM EST

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